Discussion:
Correlative Documentation
(too old to reply)
ddspell-m3
2008-05-30 11:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Is there any place on the web that has good examples of using
correlatives?

I'm looking at the 7.5, July 2006, and find it lacking. In the chapter
on processing codes, they just have a table that gives a short
description as to what each code is, but no syntax is shown or any
examples in how they are used.

Why isn't this more fleshed out? Is it that Raining Data doesn't have
anyone that knows how these codes work??

I'm bewildered and confused in Texas.


Regards,
Danny
dtsig
2008-05-30 13:01:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by ddspell-m3
Is there any place on the web that has good examples of using
correlatives?
I'm looking at the 7.5, July 2006, and find it lacking. In the chapter
on processing codes, they just have a table that gives a short
description as to what each code is, but no syntax is shown or any
examples in how they are used.
Why isn't this more fleshed out? Is it that Raining Data doesn't have
anyone that knows how these codes work??
I'm bewildered and confused in Texas.
Regards,
Danny
I am *sure* there must be but I don't know of a specific place.

I just did a search of this news group of 'correlative example' and
got lots of hits. Some just the blatherings but many had examples.

You might want to start there.

Then if you have specific questions put them up here (though I would
put separate specific questions in separate posts)

DSig
Mike Preece
2008-05-30 13:13:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by ddspell-m3
Is there any place on the web that has good examples of using
correlatives?
I'm looking at the 7.5, July 2006, and find it lacking. In the chapter
on processing codes, they just have a table that gives a short
description as to what each code is, but no syntax is shown or any
examples in how they are used.
Why isn't this more fleshed out? Is it that Raining Data doesn't have
anyone that knows how these codes work??
I'm bewildered and confused in Texas.
Regards,
Danny
You could try here: http://www.tom-phillips.info/dictionary.examples.index.html
ddspell-m3
2008-05-30 20:32:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by ddspell-m3
Is there any place on the web that has good examples of using
correlatives?
I'm looking at the 7.5, July 2006, and find it lacking. In the chapter
on processing codes, they just have a table that gives a short
description as to what each code is, but no syntax is shown or any
examples in how they are used.
Why isn't this more fleshed out? Is it that Raining Data doesn't have
anyone that knows how these codes work??
I'm bewildered and confused in Texas.
Regards,
Danny
You could try here:http://www.tom-phillips.info/dictionary.examples.index.html
Thanks! That's what I wanted.
Tom Phillips
2008-05-31 23:34:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by ddspell-m3
Post by ddspell-m3
Is there any place on the web that has good examples of using
correlatives?
I'm looking at the 7.5, July 2006, and find it lacking. In the chapter
on processing codes, they just have a table that gives a short
description as to what each code is, but no syntax is shown or any
examples in how they are used.
Why isn't this more fleshed out? Is it that Raining Data doesn't have
anyone that knows how these codes work??
I'm bewildered and confused in Texas.
Regards,
Danny
You could try here:http://www.tom-phillips.info/dictionary.examples.index.html
Thanks! That's what I wanted.
Danny,
If you need more examples - just let me know.
If you have a question - well - others might too.
The idea is: "The more people using 'Pick' the better."
And using 'Pick' without using the dictionaries ... just cannot
imagine such a thing.
Regards, Tom
Tony Gravagno
2008-06-02 01:11:17 UTC
Permalink
This is really a good application for PickWiki but I see a couple
basic problems with any wiki that are easily overcome.

1) A lot of people don't know what a wiki really is, or more
specifically, have no idea how to update one. It seems just out of
reach and therefore it's an unused resource. It's really simple to
use a wiki and everyone should know how. I think it's time for a free
article or seminar to educate and encourage people to make use of wiki
resources so that they can contribute tiny bits of helpful information
like this. Getting demand and supply together in this regard is much
simpler than it seems.

2) The big problem is 'time'. People don't have time to learn how a
wiki works or to contribute info into a wiki. Once you learn how it
works, the investment pays off for other websites, and "wiki" is just
one of those killer apps like blogs, newsgroups, or email that
everyone should know how to use. Posting to a wiki is as easy as
writing an email, and while I haven't looked for this, I'm sure there
are ways to quickly email contributions to a wiki just like we can
email to a blog or newsgroup.

For a real brute force solution to this problem, I can whip up a
program that exports all dict info to a common repository along with
descriptions (from D3 atb 17). The data can be parsed to eliminate
dupes, standardize atb references, munge filenames and program names,
and perform other masking to make it more generic and condense down
the volume of data. From there the data can be posted to a simple web
page showing the conv/corr detail along with a description. Voila!
All the examples you could hope for direct from live systems. If
someone has a question about a specific item, a forum thread can be
started on the topic.

If anyone likes that approach and has a ton of dict items that you
wouldn't mind contributing, then I'll whip it up. No, you won't need
to use or purchase any third-party components. LOL
Post by Tom Phillips
Post by ddspell-m3
Is there any place on the web that has good examples of using
correlatives?
I'm looking at the 7.5, July 2006, and find it lacking.
Why isn't this more fleshed out? Is it that Raining Data doesn't have
anyone that knows how these codes work??
At RD/TL and other tech companies the problem is exactly as described
above. 1) The people who have knowledge don't know how to get it into
a format that the documentation people can readily assimilate. 2)
There is no general policy that allows, encourages, or mandates
employees to take time to periodically update some central, structured
repository with informative tidbits - and employees generally don't
have time or initiative to write up info and send it off to someone.

Several years ago I made an offer to Raining Data to host an open
source version of their documentation, and allow the community to
contribute to and audit the doc for accuracy. Since the documentation
is open source it would be available for them to update and to
retrieve and re-publish for their client base. They declined the
offer, but that was a long time ago and they (or other MV companies)
may be more inclined to try this now.

Gosh, more and better documentation, continually updated, for free.
How tough is that? Have I said "duh!" recently?

There are many companies like Microsoft who actively encourage their
development people to blog their technical knowledge and experiences.
The information and insight contained in blogs like this has exploded
and as a developer I feel like a whole new world has opened, allowing
me to create better software, faster. It would be nice for all of the
MV companies to do this but alas this is not the case at the moment.

At the risk of sharing some private info here: one of our Nebula R&D
projects is to create community resources exactly as I'm describing
here, not just for the MV market but for all professional communities.
I welcome discussion with any individual or company with resources to
help fund this initiative.
Post by Tom Phillips
If you need more examples - just let me know.
If you have a question - well - others might too.
The idea is: "The more people using 'Pick' the better."
I think that idea should not be imposed entirely on the MV companies,
nor on generous individuals like yourself, Tom. Other communities
have more blogs, FAQs, wikis, tutorials, etc for collaborative
contributions, and this helps to keep them vibrant and alluring. When
a limited set of individuals assume the burden of evangelism for any
group, there is a high burnout factor. This is very evident with
technical and social user groups who are always trying to find people
to get new speakers, organize meetings, raise funds, etc. Without
this sort of community spirit I'm afraid our market often speaks for
itself -- and as I frequently say, here we are.

Regards,
T
Rob Allen
2008-06-02 22:51:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Gravagno
At the risk of sharing some private info here: one of our Nebula R&D
projects is to create community resources exactly as I'm describing
here, not just for the MV market but for all professional communities.
I welcome discussion with any individual or company with resources to
help fund this initiative.
Tony,

You should check out Software in the Public Interest, Inc. at
http://www.spi-inc.org/ . This might be the kind of project that they
could support. I'm not associated with them in any way; I heard about
them a few years ago.

Rob Allen
Tony Gravagno
2008-06-04 00:36:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Allen
Post by Tony Gravagno
At the risk of sharing some private info here: one of our Nebula R&D
projects is to create community resources exactly as I'm describing
here, not just for the MV market but for all professional communities.
I welcome discussion with any individual or company with resources to
help fund this initiative.
Tony,
You should check out Software in the Public Interest, Inc. at
http://www.spi-inc.org/ . This might be the kind of project that they
could support. I'm not associated with them in any way; I heard about
them a few years ago.
Rob Allen
Thanks for the recommendation, Rob. As a for-profit business we don't
fit their model. However, most of the software we are using is
supported by SPI, and I'm sure there will be a link there at some
point.

T
ddspell-m3
2008-06-04 18:53:30 UTC
Permalink
On Jun 1, 8:11 pm, Tony Gravagno
Post by Tony Gravagno
This is really a good application for PickWiki but I see a couple
basic problems with any wiki that are easily overcome.
1) A lot of people don't know what a wiki really is, or more
specifically, have no idea how to update one. It seems just out of
reach and therefore it's an unused resource. It's really simple to
use a wiki and everyone should know how. I think it's time for a free
article or seminar to educate and encourage people to make use of wiki
resources so that they can contribute tiny bits of helpful information
like this. Getting demand and supply together in this regard is much
simpler than it seems.
2) The big problem is 'time'. People don't have time to learn how a
wiki works or to contribute info into a wiki. Once you learn how it
works, the investment pays off for other websites, and "wiki" is just
one of those killer apps like blogs, newsgroups, or email that
everyone should know how to use. Posting to a wiki is as easy as
writing an email, and while I haven't looked for this, I'm sure there
are ways to quickly email contributions to a wiki just like we can
email to a blog or newsgroup.
For a real brute force solution to this problem, I can whip up a
program that exports all dict info to a common repository along with
descriptions (from D3 atb 17). The data can be parsed to eliminate
dupes, standardize atb references, munge filenames and program names,
and perform other masking to make it more generic and condense down
the volume of data. From there the data can be posted to a simple web
page showing the conv/corr detail along with a description. Voila!
All the examples you could hope for direct from live systems. If
someone has a question about a specific item, a forum thread can be
started on the topic.
If anyone likes that approach and has a ton of dict items that you
wouldn't mind contributing, then I'll whip it up. No, you won't need
to use or purchase any third-party components. LOL
Post by Tom Phillips
Post by ddspell-m3
Is there any place on the web that has good examples of using
correlatives?
I'm looking at the 7.5, July 2006, and find it lacking.
Why isn't this more fleshed out? Is it that Raining Data doesn't have
anyone that knows how these codes work??
At RD/TL and other tech companies the problem is exactly as described
above. 1) The people who have knowledge don't know how to get it into
a format that the documentation people can readily assimilate. 2)
There is no general policy that allows, encourages, or mandates
employees to take time to periodically update some central, structured
repository with informative tidbits - and employees generally don't
have time or initiative to write up info and send it off to someone.
Several years ago I made an offer to Raining Data to host an open
source version of their documentation, and allow the community to
contribute to and audit the doc for accuracy. Since the documentation
is open source it would be available for them to update and to
retrieve and re-publish for their client base. They declined the
offer, but that was a long time ago and they (or other MV companies)
may be more inclined to try this now.
Gosh, more and better documentation, continually updated, for free.
How tough is that? Have I said "duh!" recently?
There are many companies like Microsoft who actively encourage their
development people to blog their technical knowledge and experiences.
The information and insight contained in blogs like this has exploded
and as a developer I feel like a whole new world has opened, allowing
me to create better software, faster. It would be nice for all of the
MV companies to do this but alas this is not the case at the moment.
At the risk of sharing some private info here: one of our Nebula R&D
projects is to create community resources exactly as I'm describing
here, not just for the MV market but for all professional communities.
I welcome discussion with any individual or company with resources to
help fund this initiative.
Post by Tom Phillips
If you need more examples - just let me know.
If you have a question - well - others might too.
The idea is: "The more people using 'Pick' the better."
I think that idea should not be imposed entirely on the MV companies,
nor on generous individuals like yourself, Tom. Other communities
have more blogs, FAQs, wikis, tutorials, etc for collaborative
contributions, and this helps to keep them vibrant and alluring. When
a limited set of individuals assume the burden of evangelism for any
group, there is a high burnout factor. This is very evident with
technical and social user groups who are always trying to find people
to get new speakers, organize meetings, raise funds, etc. Without
this sort of community spirit I'm afraid our market often speaks for
itself -- and as I frequently say, here we are.
Regards,
T
I like your ideas. I get the feeling that the suits that run the MV
companies don't want to succeed or else they cling to old business
models and are inflexible to quickly embrace new ones.


Regards,
Danny
Ирина Ермолова
2013-05-22 08:47:15 UTC
Permalink
Hi, Tom!
I am from Russia.
I am new in D3, can i ask you about some problems about this?

Regards, Irina
Mike Preece
2013-05-23 13:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ирина Ермолова
Hi, Tom!
I am from Russia.
I am new in D3, can i ask you about some problems about this?
Regards, Irina
I am sure that if you post specific questions on https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/mvdbms you will find there are many willing and able to assist.
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